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Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
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30th December 2004, 08:15 AM
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Who should establish the purposes for concrete function and level? For example, for Purchasing department or Sales department (function)? The general director, which disposes of all resources or the head of department or still somebody?
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30th December 2004, 08:34 AM
#10 Posts: 20,668 Thanks Given to Others: 5,243 Thanked 3,564 Times in 2,275 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 939 Karma: 23072
Marc Your Elsmar Cove Host Registration Date: Jan 1996 Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA Age: 61
Determining and Defining Departmental Measurable Objectives
I would think each departmental 'head' would come up with objectives for their department. Usually these come from upper management meetings where, for example, a departmental manager presents his/her objectives and goals. Agreements are made there and ed down. Yes, sometimes they are not 'agreed to' but rather are 'directed' by upper management. Either way, it is typical for each departmental manager (or whatever the title) to also have additional objectives and goals he/she wants to see in addition to 'hand me downs'. Also see this thread on Determining and Defining Measurable Objectives in ISO 9001:2000 Clause 5
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ISO 9001
QMS
30th December 2004, 09:01 AM
MVladimir Involved - Posts Registration Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia
Smart Goals
Smart Objectives #11 Posts: 54 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 31 Karma: 10
Marc, I agree that the objectives should be coordinated and interconnected between various levels. And this work should be carried out consistently: first, top management should declare the objectives of the enterprise, and then a departmental managers should formulate the objectives of their departments. How it is expedient for ing in QMS documents? What types of QMS documents may be used for this purpose? Who should approve departments objectives?
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level - P... Page 2 of 4
What your opinion is?
30th December 2004, 09:14 AM
Marc Your Elsmar Cove Host Registration Date: Jan 1996 Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA Age: 61
#12 Posts: 20,668 Thanks Given to Others: 5,243 Thanked 3,564 Times in 2,275 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 939 Karma: 23072
Management Review is the major document, but if you have departmental meetings you can take minutes of them as well. As to approval, departmental managers would approve their own and the ones upper management sets they would approve. It doesn't have to be, for example, a formal, written statement "I approve". It can be shown by consensus in a meeting. Don't over complicate. But - Always make sure objectives and goals are written down (or electronic or whatever 'documented'). And you have to show you are meassuring them and whether or not you're meeting goals. And if you aren't meeting documented goals, be ready to show you have identified that fact through measurement and what you are doing to reverse the negative trend.
30th December 2004, 09:32 AM
MVladimir Involved - Posts Registration Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia
#13 Posts: 54 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 31 Karma: 10
It is a good comments. Thank!
31st December 2004, 02:05 PM
Nadeem A. Involved - Posts Registration Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada
#14 Posts: 52 Thanks Given to Others: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts Karma Power: 39 Karma: 60
I was sick during the last three days because of changing weather and come back to the net just right at the moment. Really, received a great inputs on functions and levels and the picture is quite clear now. Thanks Marc and other cove buddies for taking part in this thread, however it was discussed upto some extent already. Now, in simple words: Function means department (Marketing, Engineering, Production, Quality, ..) Level means personnel positions (Top Management, Senior Mangement,...) Corporate (Higher Level) and Departmental Objectives (Lower Level) should make a link to promote quality policy.
SigmaXL V6.0 Free Trial Easy to use Excel addin Ideal for Six Sigma training
It is my quick response for your messages. Thanks all. __________________ Nadeem Alam
www.sigmaxl.com
4th January 2005, 05:48 AM
BorisS Courtesy Access Registration Date: Jan 2002 Location: United Kingdom
#15 Posts: 1,576 Thanks Given to Others: 418 Thanked 452 Times in 298 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 158 Karma: 4342
Start at the top!
I agree with a lot of what has been said above. The main point though is to ensure that the objectives and targets related to quality should start at the top of the organization. Sidney had it right with his examples: "- improving on-time delivery performance - reducing lead times - reduce time to market - improve invoice accuracy - increase nurse-to-patient ratio - reduce average call waiting times" The objectives and targets should be set here and then if required objectives set for the various functions within the organization:
Sales may have an objective to agree lead times with all large customers
Production may have an objective to achieve the weekly production schedule
Logistics may have an objective for delivery schedule adherence
$ Contributor Forum Access
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level - P... Page 3 of 4
Purchasing may have an objective to eliminate stock outs
Each of these objectives contributes to the company level objectives but there should not be a functional objective without a company level one. IMHO this is one area where the standard is not being effectively implemented / assessed. Courtesy Quick Links
As for levels - taking the first from the list above again if there is an overall objective for Sales of agreeing lead times then there may be:
Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge: Howard's International Quality Services Atul's Symphony Technologies Marcelo Antunes' SQR Consulting
NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook IRCA - International of Certified Auditors
a departmental target to have done this by the end of the next period and
each manager (at the next level down) will have this target for the s they manage.
They may then set targets for the sales istration personnel to send out letters with revised and conditions to all named s by the end of the month.
This is not rocket science - some people call it policy deployment, some management by objectives. What is required is that the system follows the business objectives and that there is a Plan Do Check Act cycle in place to monitor this objective setting process. __________________ Rgds, Boris There has to be a better way .... surely?
4th January 2005, 08:15 AM
#16
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Posts: 2,388 Thanks Given to Others: 258 Thanked 424 Times in 264 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Karma Power: 245 Karma: 7871
RCBeyette
Quality Digest Portal
When in doubt - THINK! IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
Registration Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 37
ASQ - American Society for Quality
All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Simpson What is required is that the system follows the business objectives and that there is a Plan Do Check Act cycle in place to monitor this objective setting process.
I couldn't agree with you more, Paul! When my organization was first introduced to the concepts of objectives and targets and goals, we were very good at documenting what we wished to achieve and by when...not so good, however, at the "how" part. It took some time for people to realize that there was no magic fairy wand that would improve us from Point A to Point B. We needed time, people, skills, resources, commitment, leadership, focus and improved communication. So off we went with a partially-developed Plan, not much Do, very good at Check...and when it came to Act, well, it got a little embarassing. Over time, we've evolved to a system that included dedicated resources to planning, dedicated resources to doing, dedicated resources to checking and dedicated resources to acting...all while still fulfilling our primary goals of safety, environmental compliance and meetings the needs of our 5 Stakeholders. __________________ ~ Roxane ~
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." - Oscar Levant
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
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The time now is 10:18 PM. All times are GMT -4. The time zone can be changed in your --> Options. Marc - Elsmar Cove Site Home Page - Elsmar Cove Index (Ar) - Privacy & Copyright Statement - Top
The Deming PDCA Cycle
QMS Implementation
FMEA Information
APQP Information
Auditing Information
8-D Problem Solving
Statistics
Error Proofing (Poka Yoke)
Brainstorming
Identifying Waste
Pull Systems
Lead Time Reduction
Planned Maintenance
Quick Setup
Discovering Change
Process Capability - vs. k
Histogram Animation
Process Loop Animation
Taguchi Loss Function
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All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?
Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith COPY AND PASTE OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL FROM OTHER WEB SITES IN POSTS: Times have changed and the risk of copyright infringement is reaching epic proportions. I have now received several Take Down notices from Praxiom Research Group Limited related to posts as old as 2006 when times were different. Praxiom Research Group Limited is the only web site I have had a problem with in all the years Elsmar has been online. In order to keep within what are as of this point in time "acceptable" copyright rules: New Rules - 11 August 2011: Copy and Paste of Copyrighted Material from other web sites in Forum Posts 1. Copyrighted materials must be limited to 120 words and must give credit to the author or source. 2. You may include a link (typically a good idea) but such links must be accompanied by a short and accurate summary of the link in the post. 3. Summaries must be limited to 120 words. FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the /visitor. Personal Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum s, are responsible for the content of posts people make, including attachments (data files and/or pictures) to posts. Liability for post content (data files and/or pictures) resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice and/or files by the reader. Complaints, Copyright Infringement Reports, Non-Professional Posts, Spam, etc.: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post
button which appears at the top of every post in every thread. Please do not make
a problem worse by posting in a discussion thread. The s here and I will take care of problems. Site courtesy of: Marc Timothy Smith - 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road - West Chester - Ohio - USA - 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272 If you are having problems ing, Activating your Registration, or other problems, you can phone me in the US. I'm not here 24/7/365, but if I'm here I'll try to help.
The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree* - Feel free to Share! Attribution appreciated!
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
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Community
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level Calendar
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Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notices The 2011 December holidays are in full swing until New Years has come and gone. This being a business forum, activity in the forum will be slow during the holidays. Normal activity will start to pick up again by the second week of January 2012 when people come back from their holiday vacations. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all of you who celebrate the various December Holidays! 2012 is almost here!
ISO 9001 Software Document control, complaints, capa, audits... Free online presentation! www.VivaldiSoftware.com
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30th December 2004, 08:15 AM
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#9 Posts: 54 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 31 Karma: 10
MVladimir Involved - Posts
New Threads Feeds Registration Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia Monitor the Forum Monitor New Forum Posts
Follow Elsmar
Who should establish the purposes for concrete function and level? For example, for Purchasing department or Sales department (function)? The general director, which disposes of all resources or the head of department or still somebody?
Thread Tags Tag Cloud
Sponsor Links Sponsored Links
Lean Six Sigma Complete training materials to teach Lean Six Sigma courses. CorporateTrainingMaterials.com Productivity Calculator Improving Productivity Made Easy With The Impact Assessment Tool. Impact.wph.com.sg
30th December 2004, 08:34 AM
#10 Posts: 20,668 Thanks Given to Others: 5,243 Thanked 3,564 Times in 2,275 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 939 Karma: 23072
Marc Your Elsmar Cove Host Registration Date: Jan 1996 Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA Age: 61
Determining and Defining Departmental Measurable Objectives
I would think each departmental 'head' would come up with objectives for their department. Usually these come from upper management meetings where, for example, a departmental manager presents his/her objectives and goals. Agreements are made there and ed down. Yes, sometimes they are not 'agreed to' but rather are 'directed' by upper management. Either way, it is typical for each departmental manager (or whatever the title) to also have additional objectives and goals he/she wants to see in addition to 'hand me downs'. Also see this thread on Determining and Defining Measurable Objectives in ISO 9001:2000 Clause 5
Sponsored Links
Ads by Google
ISO 9001
QMS
30th December 2004, 09:01 AM
MVladimir Involved - Posts Registration Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia
Smart Goals
Smart Objectives #11 Posts: 54 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 31 Karma: 10
Marc, I agree that the objectives should be coordinated and interconnected between various levels. And this work should be carried out consistently: first, top management should declare the objectives of the enterprise, and then a departmental managers should formulate the objectives of their departments. How it is expedient for ing in QMS documents? What types of QMS documents may be used for this purpose? Who should approve departments objectives?
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level - P... Page 2 of 4
What your opinion is?
30th December 2004, 09:14 AM
Marc Your Elsmar Cove Host Registration Date: Jan 1996 Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA Age: 61
#12 Posts: 20,668 Thanks Given to Others: 5,243 Thanked 3,564 Times in 2,275 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 939 Karma: 23072
Management Review is the major document, but if you have departmental meetings you can take minutes of them as well. As to approval, departmental managers would approve their own and the ones upper management sets they would approve. It doesn't have to be, for example, a formal, written statement "I approve". It can be shown by consensus in a meeting. Don't over complicate. But - Always make sure objectives and goals are written down (or electronic or whatever 'documented'). And you have to show you are meassuring them and whether or not you're meeting goals. And if you aren't meeting documented goals, be ready to show you have identified that fact through measurement and what you are doing to reverse the negative trend.
30th December 2004, 09:32 AM
MVladimir Involved - Posts Registration Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moscow, Russia
#13 Posts: 54 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 31 Karma: 10
It is a good comments. Thank!
31st December 2004, 02:05 PM
Nadeem A. Involved - Posts Registration Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada
#14 Posts: 52 Thanks Given to Others: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts Karma Power: 39 Karma: 60
I was sick during the last three days because of changing weather and come back to the net just right at the moment. Really, received a great inputs on functions and levels and the picture is quite clear now. Thanks Marc and other cove buddies for taking part in this thread, however it was discussed upto some extent already. Now, in simple words: Function means department (Marketing, Engineering, Production, Quality, ..) Level means personnel positions (Top Management, Senior Mangement,...) Corporate (Higher Level) and Departmental Objectives (Lower Level) should make a link to promote quality policy.
SigmaXL V6.0 Free Trial Easy to use Excel addin Ideal for Six Sigma training
It is my quick response for your messages. Thanks all. __________________ Nadeem Alam
www.sigmaxl.com
4th January 2005, 05:48 AM
BorisS Courtesy Access Registration Date: Jan 2002 Location: United Kingdom
#15 Posts: 1,576 Thanks Given to Others: 418 Thanked 452 Times in 298 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Karma Power: 158 Karma: 4342
Start at the top!
I agree with a lot of what has been said above. The main point though is to ensure that the objectives and targets related to quality should start at the top of the organization. Sidney had it right with his examples: "- improving on-time delivery performance - reducing lead times - reduce time to market - improve invoice accuracy - increase nurse-to-patient ratio - reduce average call waiting times" The objectives and targets should be set here and then if required objectives set for the various functions within the organization:
Sales may have an objective to agree lead times with all large customers
Production may have an objective to achieve the weekly production schedule
Logistics may have an objective for delivery schedule adherence
$ Contributor Forum Access
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level - P... Page 3 of 4
Purchasing may have an objective to eliminate stock outs
Each of these objectives contributes to the company level objectives but there should not be a functional objective without a company level one. IMHO this is one area where the standard is not being effectively implemented / assessed. Courtesy Quick Links
As for levels - taking the first from the list above again if there is an overall objective for Sales of agreeing lead times then there may be:
Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge: Howard's International Quality Services Atul's Symphony Technologies Marcelo Antunes' SQR Consulting
NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook IRCA - International of Certified Auditors
a departmental target to have done this by the end of the next period and
each manager (at the next level down) will have this target for the s they manage.
They may then set targets for the sales istration personnel to send out letters with revised and conditions to all named s by the end of the month.
This is not rocket science - some people call it policy deployment, some management by objectives. What is required is that the system follows the business objectives and that there is a Plan Do Check Act cycle in place to monitor this objective setting process. __________________ Rgds, Boris There has to be a better way .... surely?
4th January 2005, 08:15 AM
#16
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Posts: 2,388 Thanks Given to Others: 258 Thanked 424 Times in 264 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Karma Power: 245 Karma: 7871
RCBeyette
Quality Digest Portal
When in doubt - THINK! IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
Registration Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 37
ASQ - American Society for Quality
All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Simpson What is required is that the system follows the business objectives and that there is a Plan Do Check Act cycle in place to monitor this objective setting process.
I couldn't agree with you more, Paul! When my organization was first introduced to the concepts of objectives and targets and goals, we were very good at documenting what we wished to achieve and by when...not so good, however, at the "how" part. It took some time for people to realize that there was no magic fairy wand that would improve us from Point A to Point B. We needed time, people, skills, resources, commitment, leadership, focus and improved communication. So off we went with a partially-developed Plan, not much Do, very good at Check...and when it came to Act, well, it got a little embarassing. Over time, we've evolved to a system that included dedicated resources to planning, dedicated resources to doing, dedicated resources to checking and dedicated resources to acting...all while still fulfilling our primary goals of safety, environmental compliance and meetings the needs of our 5 Stakeholders. __________________ ~ Roxane ~
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." - Oscar Levant
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Lower Navigation Bar The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level Do you find this thread helpful and informational? 0 Bookmarks Facebook
Digg
StumbleUpon
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 ed Visitors and 1 Uned Guests)
Forum Posting Settings You You You You
may may may may
not not not not
post new threads post replies post attachments edit your posts
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
Defining and Setting Quality Objectives for Each Organization Function and Level - P... Page 4 of 4
BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Jump Forum Rules
6 Go
ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
Similar Discussion Threads Discussion Thread Title
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post or Poll Vote 30th August 2011 12:03 PM
Quality Objectives - Where to start defining Quality Objectives?
Glen D
ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
11
Top Management Quality Objectives Setting objectives and Measurable goals
d.denny
ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
9
10th September 2009 02:42 PM
Setting up realistic Quality Objectives Bulk Material Handling
golfpark
Quality Management Related Issues
4
2nd September 2009 03:08 PM
Quality Objectives Vs. Quality Policy Setting Quality Objectives and Goals
Brian0612
AS9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements
8
16th October 2008 01:59 PM
Defining Quality Objectives for a Scaffolding Service company
Thomas Kurian
ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
12
26th November 2005 01:14 AM
The time now is 10:18 PM. All times are GMT -4. The time zone can be changed in your --> Options. Marc - Elsmar Cove Site Home Page - Elsmar Cove Index (Ar) - Privacy & Copyright Statement - Top
The Deming PDCA Cycle
QMS Implementation
FMEA Information
APQP Information
Auditing Information
8-D Problem Solving
Statistics
Error Proofing (Poka Yoke)
Brainstorming
Identifying Waste
Pull Systems
Lead Time Reduction
Planned Maintenance
Quick Setup
Discovering Change
Process Capability - vs. k
Histogram Animation
Process Loop Animation
Taguchi Loss Function
Fishbone / Cause and Effects Animation
All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?
Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith COPY AND PASTE OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL FROM OTHER WEB SITES IN POSTS: Times have changed and the risk of copyright infringement is reaching epic proportions. I have now received several Take Down notices from Praxiom Research Group Limited related to posts as old as 2006 when times were different. Praxiom Research Group Limited is the only web site I have had a problem with in all the years Elsmar has been online. In order to keep within what are as of this point in time "acceptable" copyright rules: New Rules - 11 August 2011: Copy and Paste of Copyrighted Material from other web sites in Forum Posts 1. Copyrighted materials must be limited to 120 words and must give credit to the author or source. 2. You may include a link (typically a good idea) but such links must be accompanied by a short and accurate summary of the link in the post. 3. Summaries must be limited to 120 words. FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the /visitor. Personal Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum s, are responsible for the content of posts people make, including attachments (data files and/or pictures) to posts. Liability for post content (data files and/or pictures) resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice and/or files by the reader. Complaints, Copyright Infringement Reports, Non-Professional Posts, Spam, etc.: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post
button which appears at the top of every post in every thread. Please do not make
a problem worse by posting in a discussion thread. The s here and I will take care of problems. Site courtesy of: Marc Timothy Smith - 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road - West Chester - Ohio - USA - 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272 If you are having problems ing, Activating your Registration, or other problems, you can phone me in the US. I'm not here 24/7/365, but if I'm here I'll try to help.
The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree* - Feel free to Share! Attribution appreciated!
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10486&page=2
27/12/2011
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